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Podcast: Cardinal Wilton Gregory on 40 years of episcopal ministry and Black Catholic history

Eric T. Styles interviews the retired African-American prelate on liturgy, the reforms of Pope Francis, and the nascent Pope Leo XIV.

Cardinal Wilton Gregory, Archbishop Emeritus of Washington, is seen outside of the Church of the Immaculate Conception in Grottarossa, his titular church in Rome, in May 2025. (Nate Tinner-Williams)

Archbishop Emeritus Wilton Gregory of Washington is the first and, as of this date, only African-American cardinal in the Catholic Church. He was raised to the college in 2020, a year and a half after he was named to lead the Archdiocese of Washington, the nation’s most prominent see.

What many do not know is that he is a scholar of liturgy, having been educated in Rome at the College of Sant’Anselmo, and has been a bishop since he was 36 years old—nearly a record in the modern Catholic Church.

On the latest episode of the Black Catholic Messenger show, he told guest host Eric T. Styles that he initially didn’t even want to study liturgy because he loved parish ministry in his hometown diocese of Chicago.

“My first priesthood assignment, which was in ‘73, I was assigned to Our Lady of Perpetual Help in Glenview, [an] upscale White suburban parish,” he said.

“God takes care of you if you just kind of get out of the way. It was just a wonderful, wonderful three years as a brand new parish priest.”

The young Black priest was not long for the suburban church life, however, as he was called by Mundelein Seminary rector Fr Tom Murphy and Cardinal John Cody to study liturgy in Rome. He received a doctorate from Sant’Anselmo in 1980 and taught at the seminary until his appointment as an auxiliary bishop of Chicago three years later.

Among the professors at the historic Benedictine university in Italy were some of the world’s foremost liturgy experts, including the scholar-monks Burkhard Neunhauser, Adrien Nocent, and Salvatore Marsili.

“These are the men who were laying the foundation for the discussions that took place at the Second Vatican Council,” Gregory said.

“After the decree of ‘Sacrosanctum Concilium,’ the Vatican decree on the liturgy, was issued, many of them became the consultants in the implementation of that decree. So I was blessed… Those were my teachers.”

Cardinal Wilton Gregory as a youth in Illinois and, right, receiving his episcopal ring in 1983 from Cardinal Joseph Bernardin. (Georgia Bulletin/James L. Kilcoyne/Chicago Catholic)

Gregory would go on to serve as a major force in the liturgical inculturation of the African-American community, including as a scholarly voice contributing to both editions of “Lead Me, Guide Me,” the nation’s first Black Catholic hymnal, first released in 1987.

That said, on this and the larger Black Catholic Movement, Gregory deflected praise to other major architects of the period of renewal, which stretched from the late 1960s to near the turn of the millennium.

“I would put all of the credit at the feet of [Archbishop] James Patterson Lyke. He was the driving force along with Fr Clarence Rivers, who brought his own blessed gifts,” Gregory noted. 

“It would not have happened without those two and others, like M. Shawn Copeland. There were a number of people involved with Black liturgical practices and music at that time.”

In the present day, questions of inclusion dominate much of the discussion surrounding Catholic church life, where women are many in number and proportion but are not permitted to serve as ordained ministers. 

Pope Francis’ reforms notably included opening the ministries of reader and acolyte to them and all lay people, but most bishops have been reticent to institute the new changes.

“Perhaps it's going to take off in cultures where, for example, women are not as well respected and honored as they may be in our own culture,” Gregory said.

“It might be a way for them to be given this liturgical responsibility in such a formal way that the community accepts it more readily. But it hasn't taken off in the United States.”

One topic that has received renewed interest stateside is the papal conclave, which became a cultural talking point even before the death of Pope Francis in late April. The fictional movie “Conclave” primed American audiences for the real thing just months before one of their own was elected Bishop of Rome.

Gregory himself, speaking just weeks after becoming the first African American ever to vote in a conclave, was asked by Styles what unique request he might make of Pope Leo XIV—a fellow Chicago native—beyond his standard duties as universal pastor of the Church.

“I have a great investment in promoting the canonization processes for the [Saintly] Six,” Gregory said, speaking of the African-American Catholics currently on the path to sainthood.

“I would like, if possible, for the Holy Father to be a sort of ombudsman for Augustus Tolton, Thea Bowman. I mean, we’ve got some great candidates that are just waiting to be pushed along.”

To hear the full conversation with Cardinal Gregory, listen at the link below or find the Black Catholic Messenger show on your favorite podcast platform.
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The Black Catholic Messenger show A show dedicated to Black Catholic news, voices, and commentary. Hosted by Nate Tinner-Williams and a rotating cast of co-founders, contributors, and other guests. YouTube Spotify Apple Saintly Witnesses Uplifting the human experience by sharing edifying interviews, promoting justice and the common good, and empowering

Nate Tinner-Williams is co-founder and editor of Black Catholic Messenger.



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